Menifee: Council to discuss new police contract/Californian
September 7th, 2008FYI
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/09/06/news/californian/menifee/z5097edcac945fd35882574bc0006d74c.txt
“A presentation of proposed police services for the upcoming city of Menifee will be included at Wednesday’s meeting of the Menifee City Council-Elect.”
“Police services, which would be provided under a contract with the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department, will be discussed at a 5 p.m. study session.”
Blog:
Perhaps Menifee should consider absorbing a portion or all of the current $1 million dollar expense for the MSJC police force which presently patrols off-campus areas of Menifee. Doing so, would provide aggressive police presence allowing college revenues to be designated for increased access for students, making available more class sections and increasing the college going rate at MSJC, one of the lowest in the state.
Think about it.
(2 votes, average: 5 out of 5)
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Ann, speaking of police contracts I noticed on the latest board agenda the MSJC police are pushing for an ENORMOUS raise in benefits and pay. If the police are already costing the district over 1 million dollars how much more is this going to cost? Considering I tried to get some classes this fall and was unable too I can certainly see where this money would be better spent! What is your take on this?
Agreed.
Ann you’re right on the mark with this situation; more money with no oversight isn’t the path!
I miss the days of the security guards who actually helped people. All these police do is protect themselves by serving administration.
Ann, I had the opportunniy to hear the proposal from MSJCPD at the last board meeting. I did hear the mention of a pay raise and an upgraded benifits package, I did not however, hear of an ENORMOUS pay raise. What I did hear is that they (MSJCPD Officers) are asking for is a small raise in pay and a reasonably structured contract. I think that because in todays day and age we unfortunaley have an undeniable need for police officers at every school(Columbine, Virginia Tech etc.)we should be trying to employ the the best that we can. I would hate to think that because certain people wanted to cut the PD budget, MSJC had to take from the bottom of the hiring pool. My safety is ceratinly more valuable than that.
Yes, there is a need for police officers in a campus environmnet. However, the MSJC officers cannot accept their role CAMPUS POLICE. The district is spending money to patrol an area they really are not responsible for. Cut the PD and lets get more classes! I was only able to get ONE out of FOUR classes this semester!
Areyoukiddingme-what “role” are you referring to when you say the police don’t want to accept it? Sounds like you need to read a dictionary and look up the word “Police Officer” so you have an understanding of what their function is. Also, when you say “an area they are not responsible for,” what are you implying? Do you propose that when the college cops are on duty that they only enforce State and Federal laws for crimes that occur on campus? I certainly hope not! That is idiotic! The whole idea about community oriented policing is that the cops take a proactive approach to get bad guys BEFORE they are able to commit a crime(s). If they wait until the bad guys are on campus that could put innocent students in jeopardy. What kind of logic are you using? Sounds like the same silly, liberal minded gibberish that Ann Motte spews. Let’s see what side of the fence you are on when (or if) you or one of your loved ones are victimized near the campus.
Mr. Brown, you obviously have very little knowledge of community oriented policing. C.O.P. encompasses garnering all community resources to solve a particular problem. Not engage in proactive policing in an area that you have no responsibility for. If the campus PD chooses to be practive ON THE CAMPUS so be it, that is the community they are responsible for. THE MSJCPD has no obligation to provide proactive policing in any area other than ON THEIR CAMPUS. We have the Riverside County Sheriff/Menifee Police as of October 1st. The college police need to stay on the campus in case something happens. I have seen college officers stopping cars at Menifee road and Newport road. How does this help the college if something bad happens on the campus? Community oriented policing involves several different agencies, not just the police. So to say the college police are engaging in community oriented policing just by being proactive shows how little you know about C.O.P and problem oriented policing.
Areyoukiddingme- As a retired L.A. County police officer, now residing in Menifee, I remember the term “neighborhood cop.” This term is synonymous with the newer buzz term “Community Oriented Policing.” Which, by the way is not C.O.P. (which you are incorrectly calling the program), but C.O.P.S.) I would think that an expert like you would know this. The true spirit of this concept does involve the community. However, key components are dependant on the police getting to know the neighborhood residents (some of their concerns), problem areas and identifying local “bad guys” just to name a few. Any prudent and professional police officer would also get to know those key areas that surround his area of responsibility. Being the “expert” that you are I’m sure that you are aware that CA law empowers ALL police officers, even college officers, to enforce any and all local, state and federal laws. If we were to employ your logic (if you want to call it that) that would mean that because of where the MSJC police officers work (i.e. the campus) they should only enforce the law on campus property and should turn their heads when the observe a violation of law. So if we take your logic a step further that would mean (just to take a random police department for example) that when an officer from Murrieta observed a bad guy or recognized a need to enforce the law in an area outside of the- (what did you call it?) area of his “responsibility” that he/she could not or should not take action. Areyoukiddingme, I can see how that all makes sense. In fact, let’s just warn all the bad guys in the State of California that police officers are only able to enforce the law when they are within their respective city limits or area of responsibly (to use your words). Areyoukiddingme, did you ever notice that a police officers badge has the great seal of California and the word “California” clearly marked on it? There is a very simple explanation for this…they are officers of the great state of California and, by that fact, are granted the power to, and in fact are MANDATED to, uphold and enforce the law ANYWHERE in the State of California. Areyoukiddingme- do your homework before you ramble about topics you obviously know nothing about. Nobody is disputing the fact that the MSJC’s primary responsibly is to the students and staff of the college, and you are right…they are not “obligated” to police the surrounding areas of the campus. However, as any sane and prudent person would acknowledge, I think it’s safe to say that they arte not subject to the typical levels of activity experienced by municipal police department (i.e. radio calls). The fact that they are patrolling the neighboring areas of the campus underscores their level of dedication to their job and to the oath of office they took to the State of California. Your concern over having to many police officers in the community make me question what your ulterior motives are. 99.999% of most reasonable and prudent people would appreciate a greater police presence…not less. What are you hiding?
Dear Leroy,
You are missing the benefits of a useful discussion. The point is not where you enforce the law, but where you actively patrol. Nobody has yet explained why the students are safer when the cops are off campus. Do you agree response time is a key element in law enforcement? What happens to response times for on campus crimes when the cops are off campus? Are on campus crimes more likely when the cops are gone?
Nobody would argue the Sherrif’s budget should provide more classes but you seem to think the College can’t put enough cops on patrol in the community.
Retired Leroy Brown, I never stated the college police did not have the authority to patrol off campus. However, how does this benefit the district. They became campus police for whatever reason. Let them police the campus. Many of my Sheriff neighbors commented they do not even want the college PD patrolling the nearby streets because they do not have adequate resources and they end up calling the sheriff to help them. They have been more of a burden than a help. Contract with the Sheriff for a deputy at each campus and lets use the money saved to get more classes and actual full time instructors. Not a bunch of part timers!
In light of a recent incident that occurred on September 25th, I don’t know if the college should even have a police department (much less an ENORMOUS raise in benefits and pay). Apparently, news is circulating around campus about one officer who got into a “physical” situation with another. A tall officer apparently charged at another officer who looked scared and backed away. Of all places to occur, this happened smack dab in front of the Menifee campus police station. Students and staff were passing by. To make matters worse, a third officer, who looked like a sargent, just watched and did nothing. Who is supervising these guys? And these so-called police officers want a raise? They should be ashamed of themselves. That’s exactly why they are viewed the way they are. If they can’t police themselves how can we expect them to police the college- much less the surrounding city streets?
I also heard about the blow out between the two Mt. San Jacinto College police officers. I wonder if the chief knows how his troops are behaving. These guys are a joke! Forget about giving these guys a raise!
Concerned Parent, here is what you should be concerned with. The college police department is woefully under supervised. I have heard the chief of police has less than one year police experience in a regular police department. I have been told he was simply handed the job when the first chief was let go. No interviewing other candidates, no open competition. How is this possible for a police chief to have so little experience? Still feel safe?
Ann, as a board member can you chim in on this? How did the board approve this hire?
Is that even legal (handing the chief the position without giving others a chance)? Well reyoukiddingme obviously the chiefs lack of experience is now showing based on the fact that his guys are out of control. What kind of a person (much less a Police Officer) attacks someone else without cause (and a fellow officer at that)? Ann, as a board member I know that you will be looking into this, right? At the very least the officer who attacked his coworker should be terminated…don’t you think? In defense of the department, however, there are some very friendly and professional officers I have met at MSJC. In July one officer in particular use to write tickets at the stop sign near my home. Unfortunately, I got stopped one time. The officer (don’t remember his name- but he looked maybe late 30’s and maybe Greek or Latin) was friendly and professional. So they are not all “bad seeds” over there.
Clarification:
The first hired “Chief of PD” was funded with 02/03 budgeted $$$. A federal grant then paid for the hire of two police officers. After departure of first Chief, the “Chief of PD” position remained vacant/unfilled. An officer who is presently “Chief” was then given new title “Supervisor/PD”. In a 2005 PD department re-organization, the “Supervisor/PD” position was “reclassified” and named “Permanent Chief of Police”. Source: District Memo’s in my files.
Ann, what exactly are the chief’s qualifications? Is he an at will employee? From what I have read on your blog it seems he is not capable of supervising his officers adequately. Since he just “slid” into the position, am I to assume that his background is reflective of a seasoned, well trained and educated former police supervisor? If this is not the case it would appear that the college was in a rush to fill a vacancy and settled for [at best] a mediocre officer who is acting out a “fantasy” to be a chief of police. I certainly hope this was not the case.
I could not agree with you more Areyoukiddingme. I have it from an inside source in HR that the chief had terminated four officers in the last 6 months. That’s a staggering number considering the total number of officers at the department (including the chief) was around seven. That’s more than a 50% turnover. To call that “mismanagement” is an UNDERSTATEMENT! As we all know mismanagement creates liability! And liability leads to lawsuits. Do we know if any have ever been filed against the chief, department or college? Ann, please look into this. The last thing we need is a lawsuit that forces the college to pay out a huge sum of money when those funds could be better served to have more classes.
Ann, lets not “assume” that HR did anything with regards to verification of the chiefs credentials; especially since (as you say) he was “recommended” by HR and the president.
“WHO KNOWS WHAT EVIL LURKS IN THE HEARTS OF MEN”? LET ME SEE IF MY ALTER EGO, “THE SHADOW” HAS THIS CORRECT? NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES LEFT IN THE P.D. (3) CSO’S, TWO DEDICATED AND ONE LOOSE CANNON; (2) POLICE OFFICERS (PROBATIONARY); (1) POLICE OFFICER (CORPORAL)MISSING IN ACTION; (1)POLICE CHIEF (DRIVES A HIGH $$ SUV (COMMAND VEHICLE FOR DISASTER)(RUMOR HAS IT THAT A NEW UNDERCOVOR VEHICLE BEING OUTFITTED FOR DETECTIVE WORK BY CHIEF); (3-4) HIGH PRICED PATROL CARS WITH MALFUNCTIONING RADIO AND COMPUTERS (OFFICER SAFETY CONCERN)?; HIGH TURNOVER OF PERSONNEL (WHEN THEY KNOW TO MUCH INFO, TERMINATE THEM); AND KEEP ALL DEPARTMENT INFO, THAT IS NORMALLY PUBLIC INFORMATION ( A BIG SECRET) OH, I FORGOT, IF IT LEAKS OUT( TERMINATE THEM)! THE BOT, COLLECTIVLELY, NEED TO HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING CONCERNING THESE ALLEGED RUMORS AND FACTS! THERE IS TOO MUCH $$ AND COLLEGES GOOD NAME ON THE LINE. A PUBLIC HEARING IS ONE THAT IS ACCESSABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, NOT ONE THAT IS ONLY ATTENDED BY THE CHOSEN FEW, I.E. (THE BOT WORKSHOP @ SOBBOBA COUNTRY CLUB LAST WEEK WITH THE POLICE CHIEF USING HIS DIASTER PRESENTATION AS A FORUM TO BUILD UP HIS SINKING DEPT)
LAMONT CRANSTON (DETECTIVE AT LARGE)
Anonymous complaints/rumors etc. have NO merit. Any written/signed/submitted complaint against anyone, would be subject to due process and an independent investigation. HR holds supervising authority over the PD.
Common sense would indicate the nature/evidenced facts/circumstance/content of a complaint, anonymous or signed, should determine the district’s level of response & investigation. Complaints of a serious nature with evidence/facts that exposes the district to potential liability would require a certain level of discovery to validate/invalidate. In some instances, due process and an independent investigation would be necessary.
Statements on this blog are not of that nature.
Ann, I located this job posting from several years ago for the Chief of Police for the college district:
Chief of Police
Mount San Jacinto
Community District
HR Dept., 1499 N State St
San Jacinto, CA 92583
909-487-6752
Population: 10,000
Sworn Officers: 5
Application Deadline: 1/31/03
Salary: $57,732-$87,326 Minimum
Requirements: Bachelor’s degree in
police science or related area. Advanced
and Supervisory POST Certification.
Plans, develops, organizes,
supervises and directs the district’s
campus police program.
Extensive experience in supervisory
law enforcement with a
rank of sergeant or above is desired.
For more information, contact:
Human Resources Dept 1499 North
State Street San Jacinto,CA 92583
Phone: (909)487-6752
Email: employment@msjc.edu
http://www.msjc.edu
Ann, can you please explain how the B.O.T. appointed a chief of police with a high school diploma and no previous supervisor experience in direct conflict with the job posting? Also, if it is accurate that the chief has only 8 months experience as an L.A.P.D officer it would not be possible for the chief to possess an Advanced POST certificate.
In 2003, the first hired PD Chief held a Bachelors/JD. Current PD chief was appointed through a 2005 re-organization of the PD recommended by HR/SP.
Ann, will the B.O.T. be holding H.R. accountable for hiring an individual who is clearly unqualified? I am a little confused as to the B.O.T. authority. Is the B.O.T. not the guardian of the district? If wrong doing is uncovered is it not that B.O.T. duty to investigate, take action and hold individuals accountable?
I may be totally out of line as I do not know what the B.O.T. really does. I
Maybe this is all the District could get? If this was the best candidate for the job I would be looking at the recruitment policies. I just find it amazing that a chief of police has no college education.
The BOT’s authority rests in a 1,2,3 majority vote, administered through BP2430 - “Delegation of Authority to S/P”. The S/P ensures all relevant laws/regulations are complied with.
Ann, the problem is that the BOT and the S/P CANNOT ensure “all relevant laws/regualtions are complied with” if they dont know what is going on with their chief, police department
Interesting article about the old chief’s qualifications:
1) Professor-part-time instructor of criminal justice at the University of Phoenix 2) Lt. Colonel in the U.S. Army Reserves 3) Assistant Emergency Preparedness Liaison Officer for the 5th U.S. Army’s Homeland Security section 4) More than 26 years of police work 5) Interim Chief of Police for the South Gate Police Department in Los Angeles County 6) Police Chief for the Calexico Police Department 7) Police Chief in Coachella 8) He served in the U.S. Army for five years as the Provost Marshal (military chief of police) at Los Alamitos, CA and Ft. Bliss, Texas.
All I can say is WOW! What was the college thinking letting that guy go and replacing him with what they have?
The entire article:
http://www.blackvoicenews.com/content/view/35970/3/
Ann, will you be bringing any of these issues before the board at the next meeting? There are some very serious accusations being made and someone independent of the Police Department should be looking into this.
No. Board members don’t investigate or call for investigation of anonymous blog comments with undisclosed email addresses.
Ann, if you simply call over to H.R. and ask to see the three filed lawsuits agains the Chief and the District this would not be anonymous or undisclosed.
Here is an idea…why not just speak with the remaining officers at the PD or ask the chief. Something tells me that the officer will be very forthcoming. They are prob scared to come forward themselves.
Ann, if as you say the department was re-organized and no formal selction process was used to select the current Chief does this not violate the District’s hiring policies? I have copy and pasted the selction process as stated on http://www.msjc.edu Human Resources Section. See Below
Selection Process
A minimum qualification’s appraisal will be conducted as set forth on the announcement. MSJC reserves the right to limit the number of interviews granted. Meeting the minimum qualifications for a position does not assure the applicant of an interview. Applicants selected for an interview will be notified of the time and place of the interview. Interviews are usually held on the Mt. San Jacinto College campus and are conducted by a selection committee. Full-time faculty positions usually require a teaching demonstration and/or a written assignment. A second-level interview may be required. Travel costs related to an interview will be borne by the applicant. Applicants eliminated during a selection procedure will be notified by letter.
In the interview, consideration will be given to various factors including, but not limited to, education and work experience, self-development, job knowledge and/or competitive ability to apply it effectively , interpersonal skills, adaptability, initiative, sensitivity, and commitment to meet student needs.
I work in the book store at the San Jac campus and I have noticed fewer and fewer pd officers. There use to be a tall skinny guy (who kind of looked lost) and wears a hat but even he’s seen a lot less. One day I asked him for help and he just blew me off. After that I figured he got in trouble because hes not around as much.
Is this the same Legal Counsel that is investigating the same claim? Sounds like a conflict of interest Ann.
From the sounds of it, old Tommy Tunson wasn’t half bad, after all.
Ann, what are your feeling about the article in the Press Enterprise about your department?
http://www.pe.com/localnews/menifee/stories/PE_News_Local_S_copclaim20.414b517.html